Rhetoric & Reality Series Opens with Conservative-Liberal Dialogue

Biography of Susan Estrich
Biography of Rich Lowr

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September 25, 2007

Two political observers from opposing camps opened the Rhetoric & Reality speaker series at the University of Richmond on Sept. 25. National Review editor Richard Lowry squared off against outspoken attorney and author Susan Estrich to discuss gender, race and politics in "A Dialogue on Left, Right and Center."  

In his opening remarks, Lowry underscored the potential for a groundbreaking contest in 2008, with two presidential candidates having realistic shots at a first: a black or female presidency. Unfortunately, he suggested, "this will generate a lot of silly debate:  'Is Barack Obama black enough? Is Hillary showing her cleavage? Is Hillary tough enough?'" Lowry also sought to put gender and race topics in perspective, lamenting that in any discussion of those issues in the nation's history, "we will inevitably be talking about our failures." 

Remember, he reminded the audience, to look at how far we have come. "Just 50 years ago today, troops had to escort black children into the schools."

Estrich, Lowry's colleague on Fox News and author of "The Case for Hillary Clinton," also commented on the unique aspects of the campaign.

She described a recent encounter with conservative leaders at a Southern Baptist college, where she asked for opinions on presidential candidate Mitt Romney.  "The college president told me," she said, 'Under no circumstances would I vote for [Romney]

When pressed, the officials admitted that they could not vote for a Mormon because Mormons don't believe in the [trinity].  

"In that moment," said Estrich, "I understood the weirdness of this election." She cited polls that show 95 percent of the electorate say they would vote for a woman, while 98 percent would vote for a black. Yet one in five voters say they would refuse to vote for a Mormon. 

"It's a weird, weird year," Estrich repeated, "when a woman is running first on the Democratic ticket, a black is second -- and a Massachusetts Republican...is viewed by many as unelectable because of his religion!"

Among other topics the speakers tackled were Democratic ties to wealthy donors, deficit spending under the Bush administration, and liberal politics on college campuses.  

Lowry drew applause when he berated the "so-called liberals on college campuses who say they believe in free speech -- but it stops just as soon as they hear a conservative voice."

On the campaign funding issue, Estrich was at her most vehement. 

"It stinks on all sides!" she declared.  "[Campaign money] can't help but corrupt you; it's a disgusting, terrible system." 

On the other hand, she said, neither party is willing to practice unilateral disarmament.  "If the other side is doing it, we have to do it. I believe so strongly that we have to get private money out of campaigns."

Estrich, who is also an analyst for Fox News, compared being "house liberal" at Fox to the role of a Maytag repairman.   And although she claims she is accustomed to abuse -- including criticism from fellow liberals about her association with a conservative network -- she was taken aback by the nastiness of attacks when she promoted her book favorable to Hillary Clinton. 

"When I came home from that tour, I was in the fetal position," she reported. "I was stunned by how badly I got treated and how much anger there was toward Hillary."

Estrich contends television has done much to polarize the debate, and illustrated the point by describing a call from one TV "booker."

The first question from bookers, she said, tends to be, "Are you free at three?"

"They don't ask if you know anything about the topic," she complained.  "Just whether you're free [to go on the air]."

Being knowledgeable about the show's topic of affirmative action, however, Estrich agreed to answer a preliminary question about her views.  She told the booker that while she opposes simple quotas, she favors affirmative action in two cases:  where there is a compelling need, or a past history of discrimination.

The booker listened, only to repeat her initial question. "Are you for or against?"   

Even when Estrich rephrased her answer ("I'm against, except in those cases") the booker persisted with the question, and eventually told Estrich the show could not use her.  Out of curiosity, Estrick turned on the show later in the day, and said she was dismayed to find "a wackball on the left and a wackball on the right, and they simply screamed at each other." 

Lowry and Estrich did find occasional common ground, most notably on the topic of youth involvement in politics.  Both expressed frustration with the task of motivating under-25s to vote, and said concern about student apathy cuts across partisan lines.  Estrich noted that students' number-one excuse for avoiding the polls is, "I don't have time."

Asked if the times call for a unique form of leadership at the presidential level, Lowry responded that the nation needs executive ability and cited that as George W. Bush's chief failing.  "He was billed as the CEO president, the great delegator," said Lowry. "But if you're going to delegate, you also have to hold accountable."

Estrich viewed the defining issues as terrorism and toughness.  If these were less dangerous times, she speculated, Obama's Kennedy-esque characteristics and his talk of hope and change would be much more appealing.

When asked which opposite-party candidates would be hardest and easiest to beat, Estrich named Guiliani as the most formidable challenger and chose Thompson as the weakest.

Of Thompson, she said, "I have never seen a campaign get off to a worse start; I mean, three campaign managers before he even announces?  He's been flubbing right and left, and I enjoy it so much because it reflects his not putting in the work."

"I'm really pulling for Dennis Kucinich," Lowry responded with a grin, referring to the Democratic contender who trails the pack.  

Lowry named Barack Obama as the strongest of the Democrats, praising the senator's writing skills as well as his courage in speaking out on illegitimacy. "But the problem is his color," said Lowry.  "Not black, but green."

When questioned about the candidate who best transcends party lines and could "bring us all together," Lowry answered, "I hate to be a wet blanket, but it's not going to happen." 

Underlining once more the rewards of living in a system that encourages debate, democratic discussion and the free exchange of ideas, Lowry said, "No one is going to win everyone over -- absent the Second Coming.  "Though if Hillary picks Barack Obama for VP," he added with a smile, "the media will ACT like they are [the Second Coming]!"

He reminded the audience that many viewed Bill Clinton as an illegitimate president because he won with only 43 percent of the vote, just as many viewed George W. Bush as illegitimate after the Florida controversy.  "I hope," he concluded, "whoever is elected will be seen as a legitimate president."

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Biography of Susan Estrich
Biography of Rich Lowry

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